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Posts: 118
Dec 9 09 10:52 AM
Christ says to pray that God will open a door of utterence. I will do so, and if its there, speak to her of Christ. As for manipulation, its a word I hear thrown around very easily here, what do you mean by it? Do any of you really believe I have the power to "manipulate" (does this mean asking her to do something, seemed to me that was simply asking a person to do something...does this, to you, mean offering to take her to church? seems to me that that is simply offering to take her...or to talk to her on the phone...or, if she or I have additional hopes, that we hope may come about through those things...then those seem to be simply that...one does not talk, or go to church just as exercise...please explain the plain English traslation of what you mean by manipulation...). And, if a door of utterence is open I will speak to her of Christ and trust Him to take care of the results...Saul wanted to kill those who spoke to Him of Christ...then Christ changed Saul into Paul who would die for those same people he hated, and would die for the message he previously hated (all of our natural estate as the carnal/natural mind is at emnity with God) as well...
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Dec 9 09 3:46 PM
Dec 9 09 4:38 PM
Release, I am not trying to play anyone. I think players often think everyone else is out to play them or somebody else. Not the case here. And as for rhetoric seems like you are the one using that as when I asked you to explain manipulation you seemed to dance around it and accuse me of using faltly logic. Still waiting for your definition, and if its simply the use of falty logic, well I will accept that as how you define it, though I do not think many others definine it that way.As for the rest, its real, real, real simple to me. Christ can change somebody hell bent on their own destruction without any prior ok from them. He did it for Paul and He can do it for her. I will keep praying for her, praying for me for wisdom and love and peace, and look to Him to give the latter three and Hope that He will help her even though she opposes herself. Actually I hope that for alot of people I know who oppose themselves...thank God He is not bound to their puny wills (nor mine) and He can change someone's heart and give them the mind of Christ. I also am not given up on anyone I know is lost, at least not till they are dead. He saves the lost, not complicated in that it is the lost, not kinda sorta need the GPS and they will be ok but the lost. And I am a simple person, try to take the Book for what it says. I did not make it up, but I hope I believe more and more of it everyday. There is hope for the lost in Him of who the volume of the book speaks. If you don't believe you need Him, there is hope that He will show you your need and free you too....in spite of you and in spite of me, He saves...
And as for worrying about her, the worry is mostly gone, replaced more and more by peace from Him.
Dec 9 09 4:40 PM
"Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth."-Psalm 110:3.
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Dec 9 09 4:48 PM
oy vey.
Dec 9 09 4:54 PM
Many people do not realize that co-dependency is an addictive process -- a disease just like any other addiction. Co-dependency can be described as a dysfunctional pattern of living in which one overreacts to things going on outside of oneself and under reacts to what is going on inside. It involves compulsive behaviors and dependence upon approval from others in order to achieve a sense of safety, identity and self-esteem. Co-dependents put all their efforts into those around them, neglecting to fully take care of themselves, especially emotionally. Co-dependency is a disease that, if left untreated, can lead to other addictions such as eating disorders, substance dependence, workaholism and compulsive spending.
Some of the characteristics of co-dependent people include:
This list is not all-inclusive; there are other behaviors that are co-dependent in nature. Co-dependents are very focused on others, yet at the same time they feel what goes on around them is related to them in some way.
The general consensus among professionals in the addictions field is that educating and treating the family members of their clients is essential to the recovery of all concerned. When a family member suffers from an addiction, the other family members are most likely co-dependent, and have been great enablers to their loved one. It is extremely important for family members to learn how their behavior has affected the addicted individual and others around them, and how they can learn from their behavior and make positive changes.
Everyone within the family system develops a "role" that plays an important part in maintaining the status quo. The main role is that of the addicted individual. The specific symptoms of the addiction may vary, but the feelings that go along with it are most likely guilt, shame and fear. The next major role is that of The Enabler -- usually the spouse, but in the case of young adults suffering from addiction, the main enablers will most likely be the parents. The Enabler keeps the family together at all costs. He or she spends all time and energy on others and often feels tired, lonely and taken advantage of, but also feels a sense of accomplishment when in control. The Enabler is motivated by fear, love and hate, caring, frustration and ignorance, and thus plays a key role in allowing dysfunctional behaviors to continue. The Enabler role is also enacted by children within the family system. The specific roles they play are:
These roles are not mutually exclusive; family members may display traits of any given role at a time. The common thing is that they are all co-dependent in nature, and allow the addicted individual to continue with his or her behavior.
It is important to recognize that, although many co-dependents are involved with addicted individuals, this is not always the case. Remember that co-dependency is characterized by compulsive behaviors, and these can be exhibited even within relatively healthy family systems.
At this time, there is no official "diagnosis" for co-dependency. There is currently no diagnosis in the DSM-IV entitled "Co-Dependency," as there is for other addictions, such as chemical dependence and pathological gambling. This poses a problem for many professionals, as there is no distinct set of criteria from which to assess an individual. Timmen Cermak, M.D., suggests that co-dependency is a personality disorder. His reason is that when specific personality traits become excessive and maladaptive and cause significant impairment in functioning or cause significant distress, this warrants a personality disorder diagnosis. So why could this not be applied to a co-dependent personality disorder? Dr. Cermak proposes the following diagnostic criteria for this disorder:
A. Continued investment of self-esteem in the ability to control both oneself and others in the face of serious adverse consequences.
B. Assumption of responsibility for meeting others' needs to the exclusion of acknowledging one's own.
C. Anxiety and boundary distortions around intimacy and separation.
D. Enmeshment in relationships with personality disordered, chemically dependent, other co-dependent, and/or impulse-disordered individuals.
E. Three or more of the following:
Dr. Cermak goes on to describe each criterion in detail, and explains that based on these criteria, co-dependency can be considered a true disease. We must keep in mind that co-dependency is a very complex concept. It is possible that a co-dependent may not display all of the symptoms of co-dependence. This, however, makes it easy for a co-dependent in denial of his or her disease to de-focus on the symptoms or behaviors that he or she does not display. Dr. Cermak points out that co-dependents can often identify with one specific variant more than the general concept of co-dependency. He states that it is important for the professional to remember that all variants should be seen simply as different expressions of the same underlying issue.2
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