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Posts: 5069
Dec 4 09 9:49 AM
Forum Host
Posts: 3117
Dec 4 09 11:30 AM
Detective... My take on it is....I see a pattern....and not a healthy one.....you constantly set "conditions" with her, and then you go back on them....all it takes is one little word or bit of attention from her and you are putty again.... ...and what you are telling her is that, with the right words and even fly by the seat actions....she still has you right where she wants you....she knows that she can walk all over you and that your words do not mean shyt.....because your actions are opposite of your "conditions"...therefore, she really doesn't need to change in order to be with you...because u need her bad enough to compromise yourself... You either have convictions or you don't....talking about having convictions is not the same as living by your convictions....no matter what... And, I pray she finds her own Higher Power, but she needs to do that on her own....
My personal opin....you are now using church as a justifiable reason to "help" her which = u get to see her and spend time with her....examine your motives....
Posts: 118
Dec 4 09 11:45 AM
Release, I would respectfully disagree. She cannot walk all over me, I will not give her money, I will not change plans for her absent a real emergency either. I would like to be consistent with her, but I also want to make sure that I am not needlessly dogmatic in my statements to her or with the conditions I set. And, its emotional for me, the conditions I set in an emotionally charged moment may not be the best ones to set, and may need review and revision.
As for my actions, they are not the opposite of my conditions. I do not want to be with her in her present state and would not be until and unless she is healthy. If (which will not occur, even if she wants it too), I not get back together with her or agree to when she is still using or hanging out with users, then your analysis is correct. Until then it is not. As for her finding God on her own, everyone I know has recieved help from others in this, with someone who has found Him (or more appropriately that He has found and revealed Himself to) pointing others to the Him in the hope that they will be helped too. I know that God can find her and bring her home without me, but He also may use me and that would be a blessing to her and I both. As for Church, if its where the gospel is preached then that is God's power unto salvation. I want her to go there for the same reasons I want to be there myself, for salvation (not through the chruch, but through the Christ preached there) and for help in this very hard life which is often a veil of tears. All efforts to help someone you care about who is not well are not sick by-products of co-dependency. Some are actually generated by love. To see everything otherwise indicates an unhealthy cynicism may be at work to me.
Posts: 1285
Dec 4 09 1:14 PM
Dec 4 09 1:20 PM
I thank you both, as you have given somethings to consider. I really do not want to faciliate her continuing as she is, the offer to take her to church will stay (I would not refuse that to a released ax murderer who asked me to go, and hopefully would be glad if they were willing to) but maybe I really do need to keep other dialouge to a minimum...its may well be better for her to be alone with her thoughts and God than for me to interject myself too much...probably need to look to Christ more myself than my talking to her...but the offer of church is always there for anyone...can't make her recieve it, but hope that she will
Posts: 177
Dec 4 09 1:24 PM
Dec 4 09 2:01 PM
Sass, I see what you are saying, especially about too much dialougue, but if she wants to go to church I can't refuse her that, at this point too it is not even an issue. And I would not call that manipulating me to go to church either. You are right, I can't make her desire God, but He can, by revealing who He is to her in the gospel preached. So, I will continue to pray for her and, if she wants to come hear the gospel with me, I'll take her and hopefully trust Him with the outcome and afterwards, for me and my safety and well being and regarding her too. He can protect me if she wants to try and use going to church to manipulate me and I hope to trust Him regarding that, I hope, while I hopefully rejoice that she went (if she goes)...and thank you Sass for your concern, truly, but I will have to trust Him and thank Him if she wants to go, Sean
Posts: 26539
Dec 4 09 2:34 PM
Retro Space Cadet
Dec 4 09 3:13 PM
Posts: 1698
Dec 4 09 3:52 PM
Dec 4 09 4:47 PM
Detective....many people have given you some great insight....I hope you think on these things.... I would also like to share that....my HP is big enough that he does not need just the walls of a "holy" place to reach people....If I truly trust and have faith that my HP is going to deliver, protect, save etc my loved ones, then I can peacefully let go of them....and get out of the way!!! It's a process tho...one which we learn and relearn many times over! There was a time period (with my x) where I thought I had enough...it was the longest me and my x ever went without seeing or talking eachother (before I started recovering)...I was doing "good"...I was not obsessing or allowing him to call or come over....HOWEVER, I speant EVERY waking hour meditating and praying that my HP would save my x, give him strength, help him to find forgiviness and recovery, to put people in his path that would be good influences, etc.... You name it and I put out positive thoughts for my x......I prayed and even bargained w/ my HP....I said, I promise to quit controlling him, to stay out of the way, until You bring him back to me sober.... Hahahahahaha......how vain and blind was I? .....But my beliefs and intent caused the Universe to do exactly that.... Let me say....BE VERY CAREFUL WHAT U PRAY FOR.....he came back "sober" alright....he was clean for maybe 2 weeks, and then it was no time at all that he was using, and I was being held down by my neck on my living room floor.....having his fist rared back and my life threatned.....the drug use and the abuse was 10 times worse than it was before...my life drastically got worse, and I never could have imagined it being any worse before hand....but it can get worse....WAY worse.... My HP was still trying to get my attention....I had NOT learned my lesson....thank God that my life has been spared, and that I have learned that lesson....now, I can progress into deeper things.....so that my life is fuller... But I had to get honest with myself and truly put my actions where my mouth was....then I could have miracles hapen in MY life....and, oddly enough, those miracles are far beyond what I thought I needed when I was lost in my sickness....thank God, that I didn't settle for what I thought I needed at that time in my life!!!!!!
Have you checked out CoDA or Al-anon yet?
Posts: 10929
Dec 5 09 8:20 AM
Moderator
Dec 5 09 10:09 AM
LivesWithWolves1 wrote: You are reminding me of another on this forum. A good man who in trying to help his girlfriend - he became involved in Meth himself. Please walk carefully here.
Posts: 5033
Dec 5 09 4:50 PM
DETECTIVE345 wrote: So my ex-girlfriend sent me a text this am asking how my night was. Responded I went to church then home, but if she meant Tuesday night (party at the St. Francis Yacht Club hosted by another firm) it was ok, but was, as usual, thinking of her alot.
Dec 8 09 1:39 PM
Agreeing to take someone to church is not manipulating them. I can no more make her go than I can make her stop seeing other guys or using meth, she knows that and I know that. Agreeing to talk to someone on the phone is not manipulative either. She can either agree, disagree or do a little of both if she choosing to call me. And...I will not use meth or have sex with this girl unless she winds up as my wife after becoming a Christian and becoming healthy and I thank you for your concern. Nor will I even kiss her until both of the above occur. As for my motives, yes, I would love to see her, but not under any circumstances. Its not codependent, its not unhealthy its simply love. I want to love her like this:
Dec 8 09 1:52 PM
Dec 8 09 2:02 PM
Dec 8 09 2:56 PM
I am a sinner saved by grace whom He commands to follow Him in loving, including sacrificially. The greatest love of self comes by looking at Christ to love Him and others, and by letting Him take care of what will happen to me, not by focusing on what will happen to me...God helps those who help others, have yet to find the old false saw of Him helping those who help themselves in the Book...Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. John 15:1. Now some will say she is not my friend, and you may be right in that her actions have not always been the friendliest, but if we are looking for friends without sin we are not gonna find them in this life. and... He tells me to "Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves." Phillipians 2:3. Think my greatest joy is going to be in trusting Him to take care of me, realising His love for me and my best interest is focusing on loving Him and loving others by faith in Him...not in worrying bout No. 1...he will take care of me...and He teaches His to love others sacrificially...not masochistically, but in this life as required, sacrifically...not the low ground but the higher...not codependent but dependent on Him to do so when I would otherwise be looking to get mine or worried I wont...
Dec 8 09 3:13 PM
Posts: 1242
Dec 8 09 3:18 PM
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